Baghdad, Iraq. “Demonstrations broke out across the country Friday to denounce parliamentary elections that protesters called rigged.”
It looks like Iraq is getting just like the US. In 2000 the Democrats claimed our election was rigged and illegal.
Imagine this happening 3 years ago in Iraq. There would be even more dead bodies in the mass graves.
It isn’t perfect but democracy beats all the other forms of government. At least people don’t die for their political beliefs.
I think you should rephrase that, “In 2000 some people claimed our election was rigged and illegal”. Don’t paint all Democrats with the same brush! And regardless of the protests and concerns, everyone accepted the result. I don’t remember any violence or threats of violence.
Regarding Iraq, I was just watching an interesting show on LINK TV. (One of the minor Dish satellite stations). A film crew went into Iraq this year and interviewed many people about their lives, before during and after the Americans came in.
There were many differing opinions, but almost all said that they were glad Saddam was gone. Some said that the Americans can stay as long as they want. Some said they should go now. Some said they should stay, but do things differently. But it was important to notice that they all said what they thought, and that wouldn’t have happened a few years ago.
Life is harder for some. There is more street violence and gangs than before. Gas is harder to get. Food and medicine are as hard to get. Life is easier for others, mostly those who have good government jobs, or who were released from prison and torture cells.
There was a lot of skepticism that we were just there for the oil (probably not a bad guess!). Some said, “That’s fine — let the Americans take half the profit from the oil. Saddam took 95% and just left us 5%!”
The overwhelming impression I got was of fatigue. They are tired of fighting, bombs, solders, shortages, disease, and sectarian fighting. They just want to settle down and live their lives in peace.
Comment by Daryl — Friday December 23, 2005 @ 3:39 pm
“Everyone accepted the result”??? What log have you been living under? Depends on the meaning of “accepted” I guess.
I still hear Democrats use the terms “President select” and “stolen election” all the time. Maybe that’s because I listen to a lot of conservative talk radio and those guys get some real nut job callers.
You are correct in there wasn’t any violence after the 2000 election. I think that has more to do with the length of time we’ve been a democracy than the lack of people wanting to demonstrate. Even Democrats realize the Supreme court is the final say on laws in this country.
I’ve heard pretty much the same regarding Iraq as the show you watched. At least in Iraq they understand Saddam being gone is a good thing. The leading Democrats in this country, Kennedy, Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton(s), Rangle, Reid etc. seem to suggest we shouldn’t have gone to war.
As far as my not using PC language, sorry but I can’t seem to find a different brush.
Comment by Don — Friday December 23, 2005 @ 7:32 pm
Of course, “accepted” means “lived with it”, “didn’t start a revolution”, “worked within the system”. And I’m not sure what you mean about “using PC language”. Was it my request for rephrasing? That wasn’t about being PC, it was about accuracy.
Anyway, I think a person can be glad that Saddam is gone, and still think we shouldn’t have gone to war. I don’t think we exhausted all the approaches, and I don’t like that we were pushed there for false reasons (whether they were mistakes or deliberate lies). Kofi Anan recently said that the greatest disappointment of his tenure as UN SG was that he couldn’t prevent the war.
People still confuse Iraq and 9/11, and I think the president used that confusion deliberately to build support for the war. You might look at the exact words he used and claim that he never actually said there was a connection, but it was implied all the time.
So now we are there, and have to make the best of it. It’s good that Saddam is gone. We can’t just pull out and leave them to chaos. Let’s just be honest about how we got there, what the real situation is, and what we need to do now.
Comment by Daryl — Friday December 23, 2005 @ 10:31 pm
I think you should rephrase that to “Some people still confuse Iraq and 9/11”. See how we all fall prey to painting with that brush? In my post I said the Democrats did the claiming. It surely wasn’t the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus and I didn’t hear many Republicans doing it(none).
Let’s see, 17 UN resolutions and he was still shooting at our aircraft. How many would you have given him? Twenty, 30, 100? What were the false reasons? If you’re talking about WMD then it’s true they aren’t there now. Of course he had several months to move them to Syria. Pretty much every other country in the world said he had WMD. Even John Kerry and Bill Clinton said so. Even Ted Kennedy thought he had them.
I’ve heard the Democrat excuse that they were only going by what they had been told by the Bush administration. Poppycock! They all had access to intelligence that said without a doubt Iraq had WMD.
I think most Democrats think people confuse Iraq and 9/11 because that’s all they heard through their BushLies filter. I never heard Bush claim there was a link. I heard him say we believe Saddam would provide WMD to the people who were responsible for 9/11. I think that was pretty likely as much as he hated Bush and America. I heard Bush say Iraq would shelter the terrorists. We know that was true. There was a training camp in Iraq. Your statement that Bush implied a connection is your opinion. I never heard or read it. I think that was most likely your BushBad filter.
So now we are there, Saddam isn’t, the mass graves aren’t filling up, the country has had 3 elections, and democracy is taking hold in a Middle East country. Yes there are rough times still ahead. Yes, the terrorists hate us even more. Now they not only want us dead they want our houses burned to the ground. What’s the big difference? They hated us before and they still hate us. If we hadn’t gone in do you REALLY think they would have left us alone? If you do I’ve got some land to sell you.
In 1776 the Declaration of Independence was signed. It took 11 years until 1787 before we had a Constitution. Patience helps.
Comment by Don — Saturday December 24, 2005 @ 12:53 am
wow. a very heated debate. did you guys do this when u were kids too?
Comment by Jocelyn — Saturday December 24, 2005 @ 12:11 pm
I don’t feel heated. Do you Daryl?
Comment by Don — Saturday December 24, 2005 @ 1:51 pm
Just pleasantly warm.
Comment by Daryl — Saturday December 24, 2005 @ 4:57 pm
o.k. you guys are so weird. at least I know where i get it.
Comment by Jocelyn — Sunday December 25, 2005 @ 8:04 pm